How to use coyote mentoring with a challenging group

To make the discussion more specific. How have you brought more subtle aspects of nature/ mentoring/invisible school and awareness to kids, especially ones that may be very desensitized and challenging/unwilling.

below is the original description:
Please please innundate me with ideas and suggestions. I have a very very very active, chaotic, challenging group of kids. They respond well to anything physical and seem to need to constantly move, which IU try to create as much as possible. They crave "free time" but often use it to fight, quite agressively at that. I run a before and afterschool program -full days in summer and school breaks. I'd love feedback from anyone who has been in this boat.

Tags: challenging, coyote, kids, mentoring, suggestions

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Permalink Reply by Charlie Davis on March 24, 2009 at 7:33pm: How many kids do you have? Are there new/different kids each time? Where have you done activities (--the setting, school grounds, park, neighborhood center) How much room is there to run? Is there a current theme to the before/after school program? Who is paying for the program? Do you have help?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by River on March 25, 2009 at 9:53am: Hi, I have about 25-30, some days twenty, during march break full days I've had only 10-15 kids. Most of the kids are at the program all year round, but new kids enroll and other leave throughout the year. Our main site is a building that is quite small and irregularly shaped and also used to be both a convent and correctional facility. We have a small fenced yard and playground, not really room to run, and it is mostly concrete. We do take them to school parks once per week and they have soent the whole day in a park/hiking trail twice during march break, as well as going to a ski hill. The theme... we have to cover certain things such as cultural diversity, sports, arts and recreation and lifeskills. There might be one more. Other than that we can do nrealy anything. The parents pay for the program, but many get subsidy from the government. My help is the program coordinator, she deals more with admin stuff and we are both new, as are our positions, I also have relief staff that help set up snack, activities and spend time with the kids. My job is to organize everything and implement it.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Charlie Davis on March 26, 2009 at 7:36pm: River I have not been in your boat. But I am familiar with this kind of situation. More questions: I'm trying to see more of the context. How old are these children? Is this program sponsored by a school, a neighborhood, a church? In other words what do the children have in common by way of other social communities?
Do you have a routine that settles the group between each activity? You can only effectively manage the group if you can create community. Are there times when you get a whole new group or is it a just an non-going group some leaving -new ones coming?

And a big question: What do they already know? You have to start there. You actually may be asking them what they think they know because there is a good chance they have misunderstandings. If you are seeing the same children repeatedly you have multiple opportunities to figure out what they know. You can ask them for their stories about when they encountered [insert some living organism]. Give them a prop to focus their story. A major life skill that they may need sounds like the concept of 'taking turns'. Have them act out their story, with a time limit. Have the actor at the end of their performance choose the next performer.

Bring some natural objects into the setting prior to each session and see who notices them. Just one or two items. Change the items. You may only be able to form a sub-community within the group if the members keep changing; but figure out who responds and support them in their development of their identity as a naturalist. Get the subgroup to focus on a discovery of one of them and lead them through some questions to get their story. Model how to look at something.

I assume you have bought Coyote’s Guide. Consider also David Sobel’s Childhood and Nature: Design Principles for Educators. His discussion of play motif types might stimulate you to think of ideas to incorporate coyote mentoring into those play activities which would be a strong combination.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Helena Wu on March 27, 2009 at 4:56am: I am thinking- use curiousity. For example- if they arrive and see you with a magnifying glass checking out a spider or ants in the building they are going to wonder what you are doing. Recordings of wild animals or birds or frogs? Bowl of frog eggs? You probably have loads of ideas.
Are there some kids that you have a good connection with? You can invite them to help you. Ask them what the kids need or want. Even young kids can sometimes express that, you'd be surprised- we need to run around after school. or we need a time out space, etc.
I think for that many kids, especially if they are challenging, you need an assistant!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by River on April 16, 2009 at 9:03pm: Thanks for all these thoughts. Unfortunately, I am putting most of them in place already to the extent I can, and I see small improvments, but all in all I have a very.... stressful, violent, angry rowdy crowd! I am at a bit off a loss.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Helena Wu on April 18, 2009 at 6:25pm: Wow. that is tough. I was talking to a friend today who used to teach in a school where the kindergarten and first graders were out of control similar to what you describe. That is all they knew from home. They almost couldn't relate in any other way or hear anything else but when you yelled at them.
Just throwing some more things out there to brainstorm-
Maybe have to start closer to home for them, meaning something directly affecting them- like food, cooking? Kids like yummy snacks and making them themselves.
You are providing an alternate parental/adult model that may take them some getting used to.
Martial arts!!! Kids who are in tough situations respect that. Can you teach any basic stuff or have guest teachers come do a series of classes?
Animals. Caring for and relating with animals can really bring out a lot from people. Rabbits or other small animals. Local animal shelters sometimes welcome people to come play with the animals and keep them socialized. Check out prison programs that use animals or therapy animals that volunteers bring to nursing homes.
Most of all find the love in your heart for them. Find something loveable about each kid and tell them. Not feeling sorry for them but knowing they can figure it out and holding that vision for them.
I have another friend who works with high school age "bad kids" and some things he's shared are that he approaches them with curiousity- for their perspective, insights. Let's them know they have choices for themselves.
Know you may only be able to plant some seeds that there are other ways to be. Have patience with yourself and them. You never know what small thing they will remember that will make a difference in their lives later.
This opportunity may be more about inner tracking. Finding their edges of trust, self respect and respect for others, self reflection, love.
Maybe check into resources for team building, outward bound type activities for ideas.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by River on April 18, 2009 at 7:08pm: these are good ideas. Thank you. We are hoping to start a martial arts program within our program using a guest teacher in the next two weeks.

We are starting a garden... I am adding otehr plants to the indoor space. And yes a pet would be a great idea. I think you are bang on with your first paragraph, they are almost desensitized to anything but yelling.

I hear a lot about inner tracking, can you elaborate on what you mean?

I have also been thinking... maybe THEY need some time with elders? Many just ahve one parent in their lives. Something to bring out sensivtity, caretaking, vulnerablity. I think really, you need to be somewhat vlunerable to learn...

thanks for your ongoing support. I will let you know what happens in the next weeks with these ideas.

~River; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Helena Wu on April 19, 2009 at 7:25am: Sounds like you've got a good handle on some things to try. Your enthusiasm will eventually rub off on them. You are creating what may be the only safe space they have. Or maybe it's the only time they have experience of that. A place and culture where they are protected, respected, valued, seen for who they really are.

Inner tracking- just as you would quiet and observe an animal, you can do the same to observe your mind, emotions, reactions. What is the inner habitat where fear likes to live? What are the patterns that can be discerned? How are we interfering with healthy functioning? What shifts things within us?
It's our inner environment we are getting to know.

What ages are the kids?

Mixed age groups are great. from elders to babies. You get away from that Lord of the Flies dynamic. Having the Elders to model and teach, appreciate and love them. Having babies to love and care for (a chance to love their own inner baby who may not have gotten nurtured). Serving others like helping elders carry things, shovel their walkways, etc. lets them know they have something to offer.

I am very interested to hear about how it all develops.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by asaf ben david on April 21, 2009 at 9:34am: I also work with some challenging groups and it seems like they always look for the superman guide
to shock them and to become the grope leader - a way that I really dislike and would love to
dump it - the element of the coyote that I usually bring in to our meetings is to decide on a new
challenge for us like survive a weekend with only locale wild plants
it seems to focus them for a meeting or two; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by River on April 21, 2009 at 8:39pm: Hi can you explain more of what you mean by looking for the superman guide to shock them and become group leader?

How do you give challenges to kids age 5-12, that are fairly safe, and can be done after school or during the day. Like what sorts of things would you suggest? We have very strict safety rules in our organization and must do a three page report for every outing.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Helena Wu on April 22, 2009 at 6:26am: I have the same question.

River- This is actually a nice age group for doing activities where the older ones help the younger. Finding ways where they can see themselves and each other as having valuable contributions to make is important. Mixed age team treasure hunts? solving mysteries? debris hut building? finding animal sign? group sidewalk chalk mural? music!!! Homemade instruments orchestra.
Also same age groups doing things together and sharing with the others. 5 year olds make ants-on-a-log snack for the older kids, older kids sew bags for the younger, etc.
Crafts like candle making or wax hands bring an element of danger in.
I'll keep throwing ideas out and you can let us know if any are a great success!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by River on April 22, 2009 at 9:44am: Hi Helena... you aren't by chance part of the message boards for births arts international as well are you? I recognize your name.

I have tried activities together, debris hut building went very very well, as well as spending the day in the forest. Wish we could do that everyday.

I love the idea of acts of service from one age group to another. Perhaps that will foster a sense of "family" right now there is a lot of bullying. I find it very hard to give any direction to the kids, they rarely want to try anything, but I will persevere, see what works. They love a song about eagles and love to sing that together.

Right now we are working on dying strips of cloth using oinion skins.

We have eight drums too.

I was thinking a bird might be a good pet for them. I think the acting out comes from boredom.

~Laura; ▶ Reply to This